[cryptography] Is the NSA now a civilian intelligence agency? (Was: Re: Snowden: Fabricating Digital Keys?)

ianG iang at iang.org
Tue Jul 2 05:07:33 EDT 2013

On 2/07/13 03:33 AM, mtm wrote:
> as a spartan of sorts, and one thats shared laphroig with both a plank
> member of the nsa and the creator of fbi's hrt, id like to say these
> fellas are decent men and not petty.

I know a few of the older ones as well.  They are indeed decent men, and 
historically their creation gets cut a lot of slack by society.

There are differences between the ones who founded the organisation, the 
machine they created, the people who make the decisions now, and what 
the customers demand of them.

Most of the early guys involved had direct knowledge of a serious enemy 
and more understandable wars.  Everyone knew who the enemy was.  If you 
think of the last 2 decades or so, post-Berlin Wall, you can see a huge 
change in perspective.

Today, you'd be hard pressed to even justify even starting the NSA if 
you had a discussion of who the enemy is;  our geopolitical threat 
scenario is more like the 1920s.

Also, as we learnt from recent banking history, it only takes a few 
deviations to drift into crisis when power is large and concentrated.


> On Jul 2, 2013 12:55 AM, "Jeffrey Walton" <noloader at gmail.com
> <mailto:noloader at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Nico Williams <nico at cryptonector.com
>     <mailto:nico at cryptonector.com>> wrote:
>      > On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 4:57 PM, grarpamp <grarpamp at gmail.com
>     <mailto:grarpamp at gmail.com>> wrote:
>      >>> And when LEA
>      >>> get caught doing this nothing terribly bad happens to LEA (no
>     officers
>      >>> go to prison, for example).
>      >>
>      >> It is often in the interest/whim of the executive to decline to
>      >> prosecute its own,
>      >> even if only to save embarassment, so many of these cases will
>     never see a jury.
>      >> That's why you need citizen prosecutors who can bring cases
>     before both grand
>      >> and final jury. For example, how many times have you seen a LE
>     vehicle failing
>      >> to signal, speeding/reckless, with broken running lights, etc... now
>      >> try to criminally
>      >> (not administratively) prosecute that just as you might be
>     prosecuted for same.
>      >
>      > I'd love to see proposals for how to criminal prosecutions by the
>      > public would work.
>     Sparta, one of the first democracies, would put the public officials
>     on trial at the end of their term. It was part of the process.
>     I imagine their Spartan was sufficiently different so that folks like
>     Ted Kennedy (liar, cheat, murderer) would not have been able to serve
>     the class.
>     Sorry for the OT chatter.
>     Jeff
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